sig p320 accidental discharge 2021 sig p320 accidental discharge 2021

So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. They didnt have to, but did. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. in Capitalvania. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. There was no holster involved. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! They function as commanded every time. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Fair enough. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Yaaay! Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Dude, your story is THREE years old. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. Sig can burn for all I care. I have no idea. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. Plastic crap! Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. . Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. Search Texas Statutes. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. Ron, These officers are not gunfighters. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. But now, P320 is the subject. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. 00:03. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! Thats deflecting from the real issue. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Thats SIGs term for a recall. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Zero in the affirmative. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. PDs are dropping them from contracts. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Anyway around here they do. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. But breaking news here, skippy. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. three changes to the original design. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Grow up, you aint all that! The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Bravo. Asking for a friend. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Still waiting. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. First off, no joke on me. Canadian soldier. No, it doesnt. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Where is this lightning striking twice? brakes, remember? That focus drifts. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Seems a bit apologetic to me. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. I still own them all. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. I agree. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. Nope. The problem is non-existent. Thats fine. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. The new guy sucks. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. I dont own a P320. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. who sells them? Great job, this threat needed some levity! You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. The new Kirk does suck. Who knows. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. Its a novelty, its got issues! Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. I also have a manual safety. How about something more relevant. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. Companies stay silent But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. It has nothing to do with Glock. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! But that's not working in the P320, he said. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. Would you? Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Whether or not the suits have merit. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. Weird how that might happen. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. You couldnt ask questions. They are being replaced with Glocks. I continue to bet my life on them. Wheee!!. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. Im more of a DS9 guy. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range.