Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. Cronidur 30 I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. I know it's much more stainless and corrosion resisitance, but what about wear resistance? Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. In real life, would you expect any presumed increase in deviation from the specified formula, as well as the effects of said deviation, to negatively impact the performance of 8Cr13MoV to any truly noticeable degree? In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. The 14C28N stainless steel from Swedish manufacturer Sandvik is considered an upgrade to their 13C26 steel (described below). However, there are other factors. There are still a few things I dont know but we have enough information to make educated guesses where data isnt available. Is 14C28N Steel Good Steel? - Knifebasics If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25? I will be focusing on CATRA edge retention which measures abrasive wear of knives. These are Chinese-produced steels that recently started showing up in Chinese-made knives. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. Then you can compare 14c28n vs d2, and we hope you will find the right one for your needs. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. This particular steel grade allows for the highest attainable hardness without. . Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? I have a couple questions, not directly related to this specific post, that I wanted to ask publically so that others could find your responses as well, so here seemed as good a place as any. Ease of Sharpening: One advantage of 8Cr13MoV is that it is easier to sharpen than D2 steel. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. But in use, Ive found nothing that withstands the abuse that 3V can take. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. These two knives are a little bit more than a pretty face. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. Compared to the AUS10A, the D2 has a longer legacy since it's been around since 1918. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. Could you please compare it to Shirogami #1 and Agomi #1, I didnt find anything in terms of grain size ragarding thoese steels on the Internert. Both steels are popular among knife manufacturers and both have their strengths and weaknesses. Continue with Recommended Cookies. How Is 14C28N Steel for Knives? Most steels use carbon to increase hardness, but 14C28N uses nitrogen, boosting hardness without the normal penalty of increased corrosion. . Very acute edges are more brittle but remain sharp for longer and cut very well. 14C28N vs. D2. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. Ive seen more talk and some articles regarding the use of AI to come up with new potential drug molecules, polymeric materials, etc. I was struggling to simplify all the Rockwell/Youngs Modulus stuff for readers when I came across your site. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. Hit like and all t. LC 200N is an elite performer, with high hardness, high toughness, and off-the-charts corrosion resistance. I wont go into detail about those here. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. As a side note, pure tungsten carbide blades (from brands like Sandrin) can have very high levels of edge retention, but they are not made of steel. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . Below shows charts summarizing tests of different steels for the major categories discussed so far, low alloy steels, high alloy non-stainless steels, and stainless steels. blue steel There are a few aspects to your question, I think. 1. They made planer blades out D2 for its edge retention. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. SG2 a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. 14c28n vs d2 : r/chineseknives - reddit Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. Is 14c28n Steel Good For Knives? A Complete Guide - Knife Pulse I see very little about cryo outside of journal articles, and I wonder which knifemakers use it. Wusthof Classic Ikon 8-Inch Cooks Knife Review, Victorinox Fibrox Straight Edge Chefs Knife Review, What is Cts bd1 steel? D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. What would you rate the toughness of CPM-D2. 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. Choose a factor below to start sorting. Fine-carbide knife steels. If you purchase this types of knife, without any hassle you can easily re-sharpening. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. It's more often pitted against the VG10 since both are widely popular high-carbon stainless steel grades. D2 steel It also improves edge retention and strength. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). I just want to thank you for all the work you do for the community and the world at large. Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. A European powder-metal steel used in higher-end knives, Elmax has an advanced formula, and the result is a very good all-around steel, a generation ahead of formulations like 154CM. So the major tradeoff is in how much carbide you want in the steel for edge retention without dropping toughness too much for the intended knife and user. That way you can get into the steel ratings quickly. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. Where did it come from? imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. To choose the best knife for you between the 14C28N and the D2, look at the steel properties and ensure that they suit your knife needs and lifestyle. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ Sandvik 12c27 Stainless Steel Review: Is it Really Great Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. . That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). . Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This makes for a great slicing knife and a perfect steel, in my opinion, for a regular-use, everyday-carry folder. However, the 14c28n provides perfect edge retention with a maximum hardness of 62Hrc and the mixture of Chromium and Carbon. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? The studies confirmed that the primary controlling factors are hardness of the steel, volume of carbides, and hardness of the carbides. Let's compare 14c28n steel with other steels, and for this, I use four criteria; Edge Retention, Corrosion resistance, Ease of Sharpness, and Toughness and on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest) let's see the performance of each steel. we dont know. Each steel was tested with a knife that was produced just for the test, and then sharpened the same way for each test (15 dps 400 grit CBN sharpening). In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? The steel was developed to be free from chromium carbides which gives it properties similar to balanced non-stainless tool steels like CPM-4V and CPM-CruWear. If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. A new steel from Crucible, SPY27 launched in 2020 in the Spyderco Native 5and Para 3. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. A2 is a tool steel renowned for toughness. Is that accurate? What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? Your email address will not be published. D2/K110 pros/cons in 2020? - Spyderco Forums Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. It is an excellent steel that in the right hands has proven to produce high performing blades. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. Thanks for the Article Larrin, . . Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. Many custom makers enjoy AEB-L, as its easy to machine but still has a high hardness, around 62 HRc. Finally, in this 14c28n vs d2, we hope you get the right one. in the correct place for the stainless-toughness-edge-retention graphic? Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. I have the average composition of the steels rated above (plus some extras) so you can see what the different names refer to. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. A good quality knife must have sharpness, great edge retention, and a sturdy handle. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. 420HC, 420, and 5160 all offer off-the-charts toughness. GearJunkie Copyright 2013 2023. And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. first there might have been some annealing going on (even if its was a microscopic level) and the steels might have reacted differently. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. It is certainly possible for a knifemaker or heat treating company to do a heat treatment that will have suboptimal properties. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. Contact me if you have any questions or input! If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. Can you contact me via my email address so I can send you a copy in PDF and epub. G10 Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . And easy to sharpen in our experience; and that will get an excellent razor edge that lasts for a reasonable price of time. Steels with very high vanadium content like Vanadis 8, CPM-10V, K390, CPM-15V, etc. Sandvik 14C28N Knife Steel Review: Is This a Good Knife? But which? Below shows Vanax tempered at 400F on the left and 1000F on the right after 1% saltwater for 24 hours: There are many other ways in which knife steel performance can be reduced through heat treatment but I cant cover them all in this article so hopefully these illustrative examples will be enough. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. Socould you please clarify which steel is the outlier and which is the line>. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. Toughness 3, Edge Ret 8, Cor Res 4? I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? If you are a newbie, sharpening D2 knives will be a struggle, but it is doable with practice and the right sharpening tools. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. thanks thats interesting. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. I also added a few more steels in this study. These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. But weve tested this metal in the form of the Sobata 398 for nearly a year and have been continually impressed. as you mentioned catra indicates the edge angle as being by far the most important variable. 14C28N. Steel ratings are not about ranking steels in terms of what is better than another, but understanding the different balances such as toughness vs edge retention. vanax But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market. 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. Bohler N690Co Stainless Steel: Is N690 a Good Knife Steel? - KnifeGuides 5 Best Knife Steels in 2023 (Steel Charts & Guide by a Marine) Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. Thank you for such a great article! There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. Or even if they try to be more open to importance of toughness, the good reputation of the high edge retention steels means that they get inflated toughness ratings along with it. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. Elmax If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. H1 and 420 also have excellent corrosion resistance but are limited to lower hardness and edge retention. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. EDGE RETENTION . However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? CROMOVA Diving into the pool of knife personalization possibilities is a fantastic way to fend off the post-knife-buy blues. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. This is good for ease in heat treating in large batches and for even cooling that greatly reduces warping and size changes. Old time 8670, 5160 (known to ignoramuses as 51shitty) and 52100 are excellent choices and arguably better choices than 80crv2. ZDP-189 can tarnish, though not as easily as 3V. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 : r/knives - reddit Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. Below shows the results of MagnaCut testing vs other steels where it is labeled as New Steel.. 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. While not a powder steel, 154CM is widely used in nicer knives. MagnaCut I see tables that compare Toughness,Edge Retention,Corrosion Resistance. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. You can read more about these factors in my book Knife Engineering. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. The steel is similar to Sandviks 13C26. 14C28N VS Steel. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. There was significant sharpness loss with 1095, almost none with 440A, and D2 was in between. great work, larrin. Everything you need to know to buy the right knife for the job. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. Opinel Number 9 in carbon steel, and a Cold Steel Tanto Lite in their stainless steel. And only Vanax and LC200N have been free from corrosion with a 3.5% saltwater solution, though MagnaCut was close. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. However, many kinds of wood are REALLY tough and very hard on blades. It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. Guide to the Best Knife Steel | Knife Informer AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. in relation to hardness). ), intended use will give you all the answers. Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. The following are less common steels, but theyre definitely worth tracking down. Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. They lack the carbon necessary to hold an edge, even during mild use. Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. If you want for best steel 14c28n and others steel then you can ready 14c28n vs 420hc review. im led to believe tha the melting procedure is more important with these steels than the exact composition. There is an acceptable range for every element so this doesnt mean that 1084 will always have exactly 0.84% carbon. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. D2. Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. For high wear resistance and edge retention you want a large amount of hard carbides. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. 14C28N And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. If you're stuck between 14C28N and 440C, here's a breakdown of the pros and cons of each type of steel. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. Have you tested K390 sufficiently to be able to rate it? 14C28N is a type of high-performance stainless steel used in knife-making. CPM 3V 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. Read about my tests in this article. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel.